Curse

Dazzen · Feb 25, 2006, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Well i must admit i'm pretty angry right now because i just came out of fissure with absolutely no shards... once again...

Group was good, 7 serious people knowing what they are doing (1 was a leecher that had the first shard doing nothing and left 1 minute after that). So we went on to clear the forge, then continued for quite a long time and were finally destroyed after 2 more people left. In the 2 and a half hours that this trip took, 11 shards dropped but drop assignment was really bad.

Okay this could be bad luck i know, and i'm trying to convince myself that on the next trip i'll end up with 2-3 because of a sudden karma change ^^ But this has been going on for the last 3 fissure trips i have done (and everytime we cleared at least the forge and 1-2 more quests). In all 3 trips I just stacked one little precious shard.

On the other side i do sometimes (like twice a week) 2man UW and everytime i'm garanteed at least one ecto...

Seriously, i really enjoy playing 8 man teams in these areas because it's how it's meant to play... But i'm pushed to soloing/dual farm to get decent drops.

Please Anet, try to fix this up so i can enjoy playing full team and have good drops at the same time

Dazzen

LifeInfusion · Feb 25, 2006, 03:17 AM // 03:17

This would never happen if in higher level areas like FoW/UW the drop allocation was proportional to number of players in the party that you have i.e. if you have 6 people you have 6 times normal drop rate, 3 people = 3 times drop rate, solo = 1x drop rate.

They could make a set amount of drops per person, then multiply it by number of party members and then randomize the drop allocation. That way everyone gets same number of drops and there would be incentive to not solo high level areas.

Avarre · Feb 25, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

You mean, a complete removal of the incentive to have any form of skill in PvE by administration of a communist drop-system?

How about no.

Owen · Feb 25, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

If I do Fissure, even with an 8 man team and near empty packs, if i pick up every drop I get my packs are full just after the Forge. You already have to be picky, sometimes leaving behind ok weapons and salvage just to get the better drops later.

Pump the system based on group numbers and not only would you put the economy out of wack with the influx of so many items, you would fill your pack after 2-3 mobs.

I agree with Avarre in calling it a communist drop-system because, aside from the obvious comparison, that idea, much like the communist ideal, would only work in theory and it's implimentation would have disasterous consequences.

It's just luck dawg. I go on SF 5 man's and watch one guy get 3 greens and no one else gets any and my Miners key pops a piece junk out of the chest. then the next time I get 2 greens and a rare weapon with 2 perfect mods from the chest.

Your 2 man runs produce because it's only 2 people and your odds are 1 in 2 to get a good drop unlike 1 in 8 (I assume if oyu do 2 man you know that distinction).

Cheer up chipper monkey, the drops will come.

m0gden · Feb 25, 2006, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I know the feeling. I run a healing/prot monk in FoW at least once a day and clear quite a few of the quests. Normally by the time the group falls apart everyone will have a shard at least. For the past four runs I've had nothing but limbs, dark remains and dust. I pick them up and sell them anyway but it's tough seeing people get great drops for the little work they may or may not put into this.

We had another monk in our group who literally walked away from his computer for ten minutes. Unfortunately he returned with just enough time left on his shard drops to pick them up. Two shards! It boggles you some days but I'm holding out that my day will come.

GuildWarsPlayer · Feb 25, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You mean, a complete removal of the incentive to have any form of skill in PvE by administration of a communist drop-system?

How about no.

Any form of skill ? I've been monking in Fow for these 3 runs and you should know it's not an easy task, as sometimes i had to take care of the whole party when the other monk was down. I think you jump to conclusions a bit too hasty.

Quote:

I agree with Avarre in calling it a communist drop-system because, aside from the obvious comparison, that idea, much like the communist ideal, would only work in theory and it's implimentation would have disasterous consequences.

I don't get what disastrous consequence you are implying, i'd like you to develop it a bit...

My point was, it is more than easy to get more shards and ectos exploiting the game (2man teams) than playing it the fair way (8man), and it take less time AND skills.

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 25, 2006, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You mean, a complete removal of the incentive to have any form of skill in PvE by administration of a communist drop-system?

How about no.

"When I give weapons, ecto, shards, and gold to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no weapons, ecto, shards, or gold they call me a comunist." - Dom Healer Yakslapara

fenix · Feb 25, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Actually, drops are significantly better the more people you have. Test it in UW, 2 people you get few drops, whereas with 8 you will get more. You personally might not get as much, but the amount of drops are drastically increased.

Best idea: you with your 55 monk and your SS friend should find another 6 people willing to come to UW with you, and let you keep their drops.

seifer402 · Feb 25, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzen

Okay this could be bad luck i know, and i'm trying to convince myself that on the next trip i'll end up with 2-3 because of a sudden karma change ^^ But this has been going on for the last 3 fissure trips i have done (and everytime we cleared at least the forge and 1-2 more quests). In all 3 trips I just stacked one little precious shard.

On the other side i do sometimes (like twice a week) 2man UW and everytime i'm garanteed at least one ecto...

ok, i might have totally misunderstood this, but if i haven't then imo it's kinda obvious why you get ecto when doing 2 man, if you have an 8 man team then the chance of you getting the ecto drop is 1/8, if you only have a 2 man team then its 1/2

anyway, might be wrong but thats jus what i thought :/

Avarre · Feb 25, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsPlayer

Any form of skill ? I've been monking in Fow for these 3 runs and you should know it's not an easy task, as sometimes i had to take care of the whole party when the other monk was down. I think you jump to conclusions a bit too hasty.

Really? Well I do 3-man runs to clear FoW, and 8-man takes about as much skill as the Great Northern Wall mission. Are you saying that because each of us optimizes our character to its maximum capability with a small group for efficiency, we should get the same loot as bumbling aggroers in an 8 man team? Our small team is exploiting the game because we have a tank that takes aggro and knows how not to die, a monk that can manage energy and a necro that can, um, kill things?

Quote:

"When I give weapons, ecto, shards, and gold to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no weapons, ecto, shards, or gold they call me a comunist." - Dom Helder Yakslapara

And when you teach the poor how to do FoW and UW properly, they get their own ectos, shards, and gold. Letting them get the best loot in a 8-man team would be giving them a crutch, and removing any incentive to do significantly better. Much like the book/gear trick (which said 3-man run does not use, thank you).

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 25, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

"There is no other definition of communism valid for us than that of the abolition of the exploitation of Ascalonian by farmer." - Grim Gallbladder

"I worked at a tannery owned by Krytans, at mines owned by Deldrimor Dwarves, and at a shipwright owned by Orrians. There I discovered something about capitalists. They are all alike, whatever the nationality. All they wanted from me was the most farming for the least drops that kept me alive. So I became a communist and moved to sorrow's furnace." - Korvald Willcrusher

Avarre · Feb 25, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

"And it was upon this day I looked upon myself, and saw that the eight man teams were not the might of eight men, but the strength of few overlapping and compounded. Throwing off the chains of the weak, I stand in synergy with the strong. There are some who call us exploiters, but they are those who fail to see the scope of our capability and might. Where the juggernaut of eight meanders, our dart cuts past."

-Avarre Mnestris, Herald of Lyssa

"There will be no greater defiling of the towers of strength than when the spoils of the strong are thrown to the weak, like the prime meat to a dying dog. This is the shadow of communism"

-Optimus Caliph

Lint · Feb 25, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzen

Well i must admit i'm pretty angry right now because i just came out of fissure with absolutely no shards... once again...

Group was good, 7 serious people knowing what they are doing (1 was a leecher that had the first shard doing nothing and left 1 minute after that). So we went on to clear the forge, then continued for quite a long time and were finally destroyed after 2 more people left. In the 2 and a half hours that this trip took, 11 shards dropped but drop assignment was really bad.

Okay this could be bad luck i know, and i'm trying to convince myself that on the next trip i'll end up with 2-3 because of a sudden karma change ^^ But this has been going on for the last 3 fissure trips i have done (and everytime we cleared at least the forge and 1-2 more quests). In all 3 trips I just stacked one little precious shard.

On the other side i do sometimes (like twice a week) 2man UW and everytime i'm garanteed at least one ecto...

Seriously, i really enjoy playing 8 man teams in these areas because it's how it's meant to play... But i'm pushed to soloing/dual farm to get decent drops.

Please Anet, try to fix this up so i can enjoy playing full team and have good drops at the same time

Dazzen

i know how you feel, yesterday i cleared Fow, i got the total of 11 shards, the monk got none. im happy.

Sagius Truthbarron · Feb 25, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

"My Health is 55 of 55, farmer of farmers:
Look on my Fissure Armor, ye n00bs, and despair!" - Lol I Heal U Good

Dazzen · Feb 25, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

"And it was upon this day I looked upon myself, and saw that the eight man teams were not the might of eight men, but the strength of few overlapping and compounded. Throwing off the chains of the weak, I stand in synergy with the strong. There are some who call us exploiters, but they are those who fail to see the scope of our capability and might. Where the juggernaut of eight meanders, our dart cuts past."

-Avarre Mnestris, Herald of Lyssa

"There will be no greater defiling of the towers of strength than when the spoils of the strong are thrown to the weak, like the prime meat to a dying dog. This is the shadow of communism"

-Optimus Caliph

Blah, this is full of nonsense and i read it as trolling the thread. You can do FoW with 3 people ? good for you (and it's not hard to pull some bonder/stance/SS builds out of the search button). Besides, as a fact it does require less skill to monk one man alive than 6, especially if you're a bonder.

If you have to 'optimize' builds to get some drops, then it's just a pity, i claim the right to have fun with some mesmers/rangers/etc buddys AND to have some decent drops for my tought work (im not asking for a rain of shards or ectos but at least one per trip would be nice).

Avarre · Feb 26, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzen

Blah, this is full of nonsense and i read it as trolling the thread. You can do FoW with 3 people ? good for you (and it's not hard to pull some bonder/stance/SS builds out of the search button). Besides, as a fact it does require less skill to monk one man alive than 6, especially if you're a bonder.

If you have to 'optimize' builds to get some drops, then it's just a pity, i claim the right to have fun with some mesmers/rangers/etc buddys AND to have some decent drops for my tought work (im not asking for a rain of shards or ectos but at least one per trip would be nice).

Oh, an intelligent reply. How excellent.

For your information, the 3man comment was a counter to GWP. Just so you know, none of the builds were made using search, and we don't use a stance tank or bonder. The SS is modded heavily.

Anyways, what I'm also saying is it takes less skill to heal 1 man than 6, yup. But why are you healing 6? Because you tank can't hold aggro, your casters are breaking it. If your team is clearly not co-ordinated or functional in that way, why should you get the same loot as those who can? That's like saying every time you enter Heroes' Ascent, you should just get to open a HoH chest after fighting Zaishen.

We don't need to optimize to get drops. We can, and we enjoy playing in a small team group. Also, my main character is a mesmer that I mainly play in PuG groups, and if im grouping and playing for fun, why should I care for drops? In my experience, for every trip where I get no shards and others get several, there's one where I get 3-4. It all balances over time, see.

Octupling the drops for an eight man team, merely because you don't always get drops is petty, selfish, would send all the prices into the pit, and people would still make big teams that can't do anything but hide behind book. This degrades the quality of PuGs. If you're really grouping large for fun, why do you care about drops?

I'm not trolling, but so long as Sagius Truthbarron is tossing out quotes, I'd prefer to reply to them as such

DABhand · Feb 26, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Doesnt continually farming the same place not force drop rates down per character who has continually farmed same area?

lg5000 · Feb 26, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Dazzen, now try clearing UW, spending 4 hours down there (8 man team) and while the rest of the team gets 2+ ecto, you end up with.. nothing

(ok, a gold cane with a +3 energy mod while health is below 50%) And no, I don't farm UW, just my luck yesterday.

Avarre · Feb 26, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Lg5000, by the earlier posted logic each person would have gotten 14+ ecto from that trip

A nice thought, but the price would soon make getting that ecto worth even less than the current system.

lg5000 · Feb 26, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Nah, I prefer the drop system to stay the way it is. I was there to explore the place and test a build, the ectos would have been a nice bonus, that's all.